World Evangelism Podcast

From Ministry Distractions to Ministry Focus: Training Men for World Evangelism

• W. Austin Gardner • Season 1 • Episode 26

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Are large crowds and impressive church facilities overshadowing genuine discipleship in modern ministry? This episode of the World Evangelism Podcast, hosted by Austin Gardner, challenges the conventional metrics of ministry success. We scrutinize common pitfalls like prioritizing conversions and attracting large crowds, advocating instead for a focus on mentorship and training faithful leaders as exemplified by Jesus and the Apostle Paul. By revisiting the core mission of building disciples, we aim to inspire a more meaningful and sustainable approach to ministry.

Leadership training within American churches is another pressing issue we address, noting how pastors often find themselves overwhelmed with tasks that detract from their primary mission. Drawing from biblical examples, we underscore the importance of delegation and mentorship to foster a culture of growth and reproduction rather than dependency. We also express heartfelt gratitude to our listeners, encouraging them to share the podcast and join us in the mission of global evangelism. Stay tuned for announcements on my latest book releases and learn how you can stay updated on my writings and teachings.

Thanks for listening. Find us on YouTube, Substack, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.

W. Austin Gardner:

This is Austin Gardner, welcoming you to the World Evangelism Podcast. I'm so excited I get the opportunity to talk to you. I've been talking to you about mentoring, about training men, about being involved in preparing others to do the work, like Paul told Timothy he said what you've heard of me among many faithful witnesses I want you to commit that to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. So we talked about how you go and find faithful and then you find able men, faithful and able, and it's a lot of work, because sometimes what we have to do is develop the people from where they are to where they are faithful, and many times they have the abilities but they don't know how to do the abilities, and so we train them in how to do the work that they're called to do. Now, today, I want to talk to you about how we get off track in our ministries, and this will be a little bit tedious and you may feel a bit defensive and you may want to argue with me, and I'm fine with that. I would love to talk to you about it, but I think what ends up happening for the missionary that's going to the field and for the pastor who's working in a church that we don't consider the things I want to talk to you about today. See, we get off track because we have the wrong goals for our ministry.

W. Austin Gardner:

Now, jesus' main ministry outside the cross was training 12 men. In all honesty, his healing ministry was secondary. His feeding the poor ministry was secondary. You want to hear a wild and crazy one? His preaching ministry was secondary. I suppose the only one that was more of that would be the communion with the Father and prayer. So what happens is when we get into the ministry, we make a mistake and we go for the wrong things. That will lead us down a track that will take us far away from discipleship and mentoring and training others. The first wrong goal is conversions. We so desperately want to see people saved. We kick into easy believism Just get them to pray the prayer. We kick into a very aggressive evangelism that is extremely shallow and you may get a lot of decisions, but not always are there very many in church.

W. Austin Gardner:

I practice that. All of the things I would ever talk to you about, I suppose, are mistakes that I have made and I've had to grow from. I know what it's like to try to get your church to baptize a certain number of people and the attendance may not grow. I did that while I was in Cartersville. I was following the leadership that I had been given. I think it was a major mistake. I confessed that sin I was after conversions. I wanted people to make a decision to accept Christ. I've been soul winning with some of the quote unquote most famous soul winners in the world, the ones that say bow your head, pray this prayer.

W. Austin Gardner:

And we came back in and claimed somebody got saved. I saw him witness to him for 10 or 15 seconds at a traffic light. That's sad, but it's a trap that we get into. We know that as missionaries, that back home they're reading our predator and they are looking for the most bang for their buck. And so we want to be able to say we're getting a lot of people saved, we're getting a lot of people to pray the prayer. That's a wrong goal, in my opinion.

W. Austin Gardner:

A second wrong goal is that we go for crowds, so we try to get large numbers of people, and to do that we make all sorts of mistakes. You know, we put on a show we are, instead of being an intentional ministry, we become an attractional ministry. So we look at a way to make them want to come in. So we put on a show, we give out food, we give out clothes, we do things for people. Uh, we do things that might stir up people to want to come into our church. I have done more than my share of that, and so what we do is we're after a crowd, we're trying to get a bunch of people to show up and be in our church service. We want to be able to count the numbers. I'm afraid we are all addicted to numbers. I have been addicted to numbers. I think that that can lead to a problem, because now it is about what kind of program I can put on and what kind of publicity I can put out.

W. Austin Gardner:

I think another goal that's a mistake is we're after church buildings. We want to build a building. Somehow we have come. In the New Testament they didn't even have church buildings, and today we have come to decide that the building is the church and we make a big deal out of a church, and that can lead to a massive mistake because all of a sudden we're in building programs and we're pushing the people for money and we are using people so we can get a building and we're trying to manipulate people. I just think that could be a wrong goal. Now I want to stop here, just because I can hear you now You're getting a little agitated with me.

W. Austin Gardner:

I believe we ought to win all the souls we can. I believe we ought to reach all the people that we can, and I believe we ought to have a nice building and I still would do all of those things. I just think those aren't the goals. They're the byproducts, they're the secondaries, they're what come along as we do the work we're called to do, but they're not the main thing. I think another mistake is we want to build a great church, so we determine what a great church looks like by our definition. With many people that I have been associated with almost all of my life, that means what they look like on the outside. Do they wear their hair the right way? Do they dress the right way? Do they go to the right places? Do they not go to the wrong places? And we build a church that we call great because they attend, they don't miss, they don't participate in any of the sins that we are against, and we build a great church. We are trying.

W. Austin Gardner:

I think another mistake. We want to get our people holy. I think that's a great goal, but it's just really not your work. It's not what God's called you to do. It's not what you're supposed to be doing. That's really the ministry of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit of God. That doesn't mean that you don't preach truth, but to many that I'm going to speak to right now, you may just preach on your pet topics. You know you don't follow a through the Bible plan. It's amazing, when you preach expository sequential messages, that you preach all of God's truth but you don't overemphasize the things that are most culturally important to you.

W. Austin Gardner:

I spent years, years going by when I thought, man, we're going to talk about outward dress, we're going to talk about appearance, we're going to talk about the hairstyle, we're going to talk about so many of these things and we're going to nail those things. But interestingly, you have to keep going back to the same places. They are mentioned, maybe not even correctly the way we do it, but they're mentioned very seldom, and so we have made, I think, a wrong goal of that. So if you could just think with me just a second, I think you could see with me that when you have the wrong goals, you won't be training men. You won't be preparing other men or other women to be in leadership positions and to do the work men or other women to be in leadership positions and to do the work.

W. Austin Gardner:

I think it would be interesting to go and read of what Jesus said to the apostles as he was training them. Go through all the private discussions and see all the things that they went over. He was far more concerned about what was going on in their heart. He was far more concerned about were they forgiving other people? There are plenty of messages on that. He was far more concerned about are they loving other people? By this, shall all men know that you are my disciples because you love one another. He is far more concerned about us getting rid of our pride and humbling ourselves. Those are the things where he spent the majority of time when he talked to his people. Where do you spend the majority of time when you talked to his people? Where do you spend the majority of time when you talk to your people?

W. Austin Gardner:

Now, these wrong goals lead us to wrong results and again, I'm afraid this may become a little bit of a sensitive issue and you may not be very happy with me, but we like to brag about how many people we've seen saved. Well, if you're a missionary and your prayer letter, 50 professions of faith, 100 professions of faith. I have known people to go to the Philippines and in a week's time have 5,000 professions of faith. See, it's all about numbers to show. It's all about numbers to show. I used to regularly get letters from churches in America asking me with a questionnaire how many people I led to cross personally, how many people got saved when I was preaching, how many people were led to cross by my ministry? And I'd write back and I said I don't keep up with that. I said I keep up with how many attend our churches, how many churches we're starting, and we keep up with how many people we baptize. But we don't even baptize immediately. We first take the time to disciple them and make sure that they at least appear to trust in Christ. And I have made more mistakes doing that, because many people got baptized anyway. So we're after numbers.

W. Austin Gardner:

A major problem all across America that should just plague our hearts is the number of big, empty, beautiful church buildings. Our people built large buildings that they cannot fill up. They are empty. There's a seating for 500 or 1,000 or 1,500 or 3,000, and there are 50 or 100 people. All of a sudden now the new pastor is walling in sections of the auditorium. We've got big, beautiful empty buildings Also by now, because we're running around doing everything for everybody. We're meeting every need. Somebody calls on the phone and says I need you to come over here and help me with my marriage. I need you to come over and help me with my finances. My car broke down, my tire's flat and we run off.

W. Austin Gardner:

And so we build a ministry that keeps us tied down. Every pastor, you know, is extremely busy, but maybe not busy at the right thing. Every missionary is very busy, but maybe not busy at the right thing. Every missionary is very busy, but maybe not busy at the right thing. We are to be training men. Paul tells Timothy, a young preacher now here. Listen to me, buddy, what you've heard me say in front of many witnesses. I want you to commit that the faithful men are able to teach others also. We're in the process of building future leaders. The ministry looks good, we got a lot of stuff going on, but we're so tied down we couldn't go to the mission field. We couldn't do any of the other things, because we're so tied down to the ministry that we are currently operating and it is keeping us extremely busy, extremely tied down, extremely busy with what we're doing. We're afraid to offend anybody because if we offend anybody, we don't have the money to pay for the building that we're building. We don't have any money to pay for the salaries that we're paying. So we have to be very careful. We don't want to offend anyone. So even we accept things we know God doesn't accept.

W. Austin Gardner:

I'm afraid that this may be one of the wrong results. You know, when you have the wrong goals, I think you can develop parasitic people. Parasitic people, people that depend on you, that need you, that you prop up, that you help. They've got to talk to you on a regular basis. They've got to ask you questions all the time. They've got to constantly be finding out from you what to do. They can't make decisions on their own. You have basically trained them to be a parasite that lives off of you. You don't want it to be that way, but you train them to be that way and now you're stuck with it.

W. Austin Gardner:

See, we've accepted misconceptions. That's why we don't train leaders. So we've had wrong goals that led to wrong results. And now we've got some misconceptions. You see, the average pastor is like I am too busy to train people. That's a misconception. Jesus wasn't too busy to train people. Paul wasn't too busy to train people. I don't think any of us would want to sit down and argue with them about how busy we are compared to them. We say to ourselves well, no one else can do it as well as I can. But do you realize that if you train two people to do it 60% as well as you could, two of them together would do it 120% as well as you and you would accomplish more. You would learn to give other people a job to do. They'd feel like they're a part and they would be in a growing situation where they are coming on to do something with their lives in the future. You see, we are training other people to do the ministry.

W. Austin Gardner:

We say, well, it takes longer to train somebody than it does to do it. I 100% agree with you. The fact is, I would agree with you with anything you could say. But even with all of that said, jesus still trained men. Jesus knew it took longer to do it. He could do anything. He didn't have to send Peter down to the dock to catch a fish with a coin in its mouth. He could have just told the coin to appear, but he had to teach people. It's about training people. Jesus could preach all day and share the gospel all day and heal all day, and then sit at night and explain what he preached, like he did in Matthew, chapter 13. He was about training. He was about training.

W. Austin Gardner:

You see, it may take longer to train them. It takes a long time to raise your children, but it won't be long. If you ever start raising your children and they grow into adulthood, they'll have their own children. You'll be on the sidelines because a grandparent I'm now a great grandparent. I'm not near as important in their lives as I was. I'm important as a figurehead, but I'm not the dad, I'm not the trainer, I'm just the prayer. Now, I'm just the guy that tries to say a few things.

W. Austin Gardner:

They'll never do it as well as I can. That's a shameful, prideful comment to make, isn't it? They'll never do it as well as I can. Have you ever considered that if you are unique, you're a failure? Have you ever felt that if you didn't reproduce yourself, you died when you died? Do you realize that when great men with all these talents die, it's over? But when Jesus died and was buried and rose again and went to heaven, the ministry expanded like never before in history. The Apostle Paul could go to prison and the churches could still be getting opened and things could still be getting done because they trained men. That's who you are. That's what we're to do. They may never do it as well as you can, but maybe we should change that and say I'll teach them to do it the best I can and believe they can go beyond me. There are no good church members, or I can't find any.

W. Austin Gardner:

Years ago I was in a country with a young missionary and I got invited to speak to the older missionaries, the ones that had been there for a long time, and so I got there and I went in the office and in the office there were Hebrew books and the Hebrew Bible and a Greek New Testament and I was like, oh my goodness, I'm in the wrong place. I do not belong among these people. These are smart people. I'm really dumb. I don't know how to do any of this, and they'd asked me there to teach them how to train leaders. So, very embarrassed, I walked out and I said I really don't want to talk about this, I'd rather just have a chat. Let's chew the fat, let's talk. I'd rather just have a chat, let's chew the fat, let's talk.

W. Austin Gardner:

And so they began to tell me what was wrong and how. They'd spent 30 years and they could not find any good people from that country. Then they told me that they had spent all their lives investing in people, but everyone failed. They only knew of one guy at that time. There was a national that was doing good. So I said well, what about your children? Oh, they said they're great. That was doing good. So I said well, what about your children? Oh, they said they're great, our children are great. I said well, what about if you adopted one of the nationals and he lived in your home? Would that be good? They said yes. I said so adopt, isn't that what we do? We step into their culture, we take them into our lives and we share with them and train them Culturally. They may not be ready to do what you are doing, they may not have the same heart that you have, but don't ever accept that there are no good nationals All across America.

W. Austin Gardner:

When I used to travel back before cancer and all of that set in. I used to travel and I would always hear stuff like this. I would hear people say there are no good young people. And then I'd look across America and all the colleges were full. The Bible colleges were full. You couldn't find them, but they found a college that would believe in them. Could it be that there aren't any young people wanting to do something for God because you don't believe in them? Could it be that you have taken a bad attitude? So I want to just kind of round it up or close it up today, and I want to leave you with this, the same that you have heard of among many faithful witnesses commit thou to faithful men, they'll be able to teach others.

W. Austin Gardner:

Also, I want to remind you that Jesus lived a life-on-life discipleship. He spent countless hours with them when I went to language school. I went to language school 20 hours, but I spent probably 40 hours a week with another man, a Mexican, a national. That's where I really learned the culture and the language, because living with him, I picked up on so many things I didn't know. Jesus chose 12 men to be with him. We've discussed that with him. He wanted to spend time with them. He traveled with them, he ate with them, they camped out together. They traveled to the next town together. When he was alone, he was with 12 men, and when those men became very successful and greatly used to God and Jesus had died and been buried and rose again and ascended into heaven, they said we know something about these guys. They spent time with Jesus.

W. Austin Gardner:

Jesus believed in the people he trained. He told them they'd do greater works than he would do than he had ever done, and so I want to challenge you to get a hold of that same concept. Let's follow our leader, let's follow our master. Let's do what we've seen done. Let's make up our mind that we will get back on track of training men. You should try your best to figure out how to spend 80% of your time training 20% of your people. Mainly, look for young guys between the ages of 15 and 25 who might give their life to service and teach them and train them and carry them along, show interest in them so that they can become and do all these things. Don't fall for these wrong goals that have messed us up for so long. Those wrong goals lead to wrong results. Those wrong results come because we have misconceptions about what it means to train people. You can train people. If you're a dad, you have trained people. You are training people, so don't don't buy into that, don't believe that.

W. Austin Gardner:

I just want to say thank you to all of you for being with us today. I want to thank you so much for the opportunity to talk to you. I am so grateful that you would take the time to listen to the World Evangelism Podcast. I hope that you will share it with other people. If you like it, give it a like, leave a comment, let people know what it means to you. Share this so that we can do more.

W. Austin Gardner:

I have the greatest hunger to inspire people for world evangelism and to empower them to do what God has called them to do. That's my heart's desire. Now I'm excited. You know my book on fulfilling marriage is out and you can get a copy of that on Amazon and in my book on discerning God's will for you. I'm making sure you've taken all the steps that's available, but Paying to Praise is about to come out. You'll get it very shortly and I will announce it over here. As soon as I release that book. You can get a copy of it. So I appreciate your helping me. If you're not involved in my newsletter, go to waustongardenersubstackcom and sign up to get the newsletter. I just I'm doing all I can to write and teach in the days God has given me so that I will bring honor to his name. You bless me, thank you. I just want to be a blessing to you. Thank you so much for all you do. God bless every one of you.